Ohhhh and I forgot.....
Christ was not born in December. The reason we celebrate the birth of Christ in December is because originally Emporer Constantine converted to Christianity and when he did so he change the original cellebration that was on the 25th. It was mithraism and that was the god of the sun. "Light of the World" followers of the religion were called "Soldiers of Light". Hence the easy change to "Soldiers of Christ". With Constantines conversion to the teachings of Christ the entire state changed to Christianity and the date was set in place.
Still Many belive that the birthdate of Christ may have been the 6th of January. That is usually called 3 kings day in some countries.
The "LDS" or Latter-Day Saints believe that the birth of Christ was closer to spring and around Easter. However still celebrate it with the "Christians" on the 25th of December.
Happy Holidays or Holy Days are just as applicable to the "Christians" as it is to any other faith out there.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe that I also said that I found many Christians to be judgemental. And, while I may not share the views of everyone on this board, I am Christian.I must say, though, that I am tired of non-Christians calling all Christians "judgemental" just because they believe something is wrong.
Even if you love the sinner and hate the sin, you are still judging.
I agree Ann. The mere fact that you are saying what they are doing is wrong is judging them. You are placing your religous beliefs upon them to decide what is right or wrong. Im not saying that I think you deep down hate that person, but you are judging them. The whole basis for homosexuality being wrong comes entirely from religion and that is why I have an issue with passing laws that restrict their rights. As far as Im concerned, you are combining politics with religion on that one. I am truly scared for where this country is heading if this continues the way it has on many issues.
As for Christmas, I cant help but laugh every time I hear someone say, 'lets bring Christ back into Christmas'. First of all, bringing Christ back into Christmas means bringing your lord and savior back into the materialistic and commercialism mess that is modern day Christmas. Seems funny that anybody wants that. Second, other than the nativity scene, nearly every Christmas holiday tradition we have is descended from pagan winter solstice celebrations. December the 25th was picked as the day for Christmas because it was the sun gods birthday in Roman mythology and was a huge celebration. It was their way of keeping one of their greatest parties when they switched from 'pagan' to Christianity. It simply made the transition easier. The traditions that followed mostly came from northern Europe where their religion was entirely based around nature and they had a huge celebration during the winter solstice which occurs December 21, right around Christmas coincidently! From the evergreens which were honored for the seeminly magical ability to stay fresh and green throughout the dead of winter to fruit which celebrates life. So as you can see, modern day Christmas the way it is CELEBRATED, not necessarily how it is viewed, today actually has very little to do with Christ.
People who are Christian will keep Christ in their personal celebrations and that is fine. But he does not need to be involved in everyone elses. I view Jesus as a great prophet but not a savior. I was raised Catholic but claim no religion now. But I still participate in Christmas because I love the history behind the holiday and still think Jesus' birth should be celebrated. Therefore, I dont think that we should assume everyone wants to hear 'Merry Christmas'. There are many holidays going on at this time of year and we should be respectful of everyone.
However, if someone says 'Happy Holidays' to me on Christmas day, Im going to call the PC police on them [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 11, 2005 02:05 AM: Message edited by: *shortie* ]</font>
Because Christmas has become such a mainstream holiday, that is why so many people practice it. Obviously if you are Muslim or Hindu or Jewish you wont be. But there are many people who dont really accept any religion, such as myself, who simply part take in the cultural aspects of the holiday. That being Santa Claus, Christmas trees, etc. Those things have nothing to do with the birth of Christ. They are the cultural celebration of Christmas and I see nothing wrong with people who are not Christian celebrating that.
As for believing your religion is the one true religion means having faith in your religion, well, I disagree and agree [img]confused.gif[/img] On hand, part of disgusted attitude I have with organized religion of all kinds is that people will follow the parts they choose and ignore others because, "well thats not modern anymore so we dont do it or believe it." Well then really, whats the point in following your religion? So in many ways, I agree more with the hardcore religous people and how they practice, then the every sunday and thats it crowd.
On the other hand, I truly believe that living a good life filled with love and compassion for others is what ultimately matters more than any faith or religion. I really cant believe that a homosexual, agnostic person who lived a wonderful life of compassion and love is going to go to 'h*ll' for simply being gay or not having a defined faith. If you are a good person-because basic morals dont come from just the bible-then does it really matter if someone practices, Hindu, Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. Or for that matter, protestant vs Catholic. I was raised the latter and even though I disgree with much of it, I am sick to death of ignorant stereotypes and how protestants often parade around as they 'discovered the truth' and Catholics are wierd and scary and very wrong people.
Anyway, the concept of 'one true faith' really confuses me. Since I know more about Christianity I will use that as my example. The Catholic church was the first Christian religion. From the beginning I believe Jesus' teachings were warped by people who created an organized heirarchy and twisted his message into a very structured practice. Centuries later you have the Protestant Reformation. To me, this even worse because all it is someone disagreeing and starting a religion based upon 'truths' they have supposedly discovered. How are they any more right than the original Catholic church? Everything has become so twisted and changed and structured from what Jesus actually preached. Which was simply to have love and compassion for everyone. THAT was his message. Plain and simple, no frills. I believe anyone can intrepret the bible anyway they want, I just dont think that someone should start a religion based on how they see it. Which to me, is all Christianity has become.
I know my views are radical, especially on a board like this. But that is simply how I feel. I consider myself a deeply spiritual person, more so than the many people I know who consider themselves devout Catholic or devout Lutheran. My frustrations come from a combination of Christians acting as the victims as of late even though they are still the majority as well as the constant critisism of Catholicism by people who usually have no idea what they are talking about. In the end, I just wish people would realize that being a good and compassionate person who is so much more important than any religion.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 11, 2005 01:01 PM: Message edited by: *shortie* ]</font>
StarTrekCaptain--great way of saying it. They way the worldd has become today is "everything is acceptable...don't judge anybody." Someone on this board said fear rules, not the majority. I think that if you live your life saying that everything is ok because of your FEAR of being called a hypocrite, then you are really letting fear rule your life.
If we didn't judge anybody, then there would be no jails, no laws, no government, no nothing. Murder would be ok, because, after all everything is accpetable. I'm sure the murder had a good reason for killing another person...blah blah blah. Stuff like that makes me sick and I really really fear for the future of the world if the world continues in this way.
As for Christianity being the only right religion. It is. Period. the end. There is no other way. Compassion, etc... you can be the best person in the world, but you are still a sinner, and without Jesus Christ you are not going to Heaven. Read John 14:6... Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE goes to the Father except through Him.
Thanks for keeping this civil, guys. This is a fun place to discuss these kind of things and I'm glad you are all posting here.
Thanks,
Tra
I understand that you believe Christianity is the one and true religion, but please say "I believe..." before such comments because not everyone feels that way. I happen to strongly disagee. I find it a tad insulting as it is a backhanded way of saying that I myself will be going to h*ll because I do not think of Jesus as a savior. I also dont believe most of what the bible says because it was written by simple men. Not Jesus, not god, men. The bible contains many contradictions within itself and is a product of its patriarchal time.
I understand what you saying about judging when it comes to the law. No there is no excuse for killing a person and Im not the type to make one up. Im very conservative when it comes to the law and punishment in fact. However, I have a problem with using religion in law, such as the outlawing of gay marriage. That is a mixture of religion and politics. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves. Most of them were agnostic at best, contrary to what most people think today. Christianity WAS the common religion of the land that is true. But it doesnt take any faith or religion to realize that murder, theft or lieing is wrong. Judging people in accordance with the law is not the same thing as judging a person for who they want to marry. Marriage was almost always kept as a civil act, not one related to religion. I can understand-even if I disagree with it-some peoples view on not allowing actual marriage in the church if it is what their religion preaches. But to deny civil unions is something I dont understand. It is a legal union and nothing more.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 11, 2005 04:46 PM: Message edited by: *shortie* ]</font>
The Bible was written by men FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. So in essence, God did write the Bible.
As for judging people based on law and not religion, where do you thing the law came from? Where do you think our society got its laws if not from the Christian religion. I mean, in some socieities it is ok to kill a person if they insulted a member of your family. Why don't we have laws like in those places as opposed to the laws we do have?
How can one be 'filled with the holy spirit'? I have heard this before and have a hard time digesting it. If that is the case, then shouldnt the koran also be true? Were they not filled with something 'holy' when they wrote their ideas down? How can the Christian bible be any more true than the Islamic koran? In Christian Science, Mary Eddy Baker's book on science and health is held up in nearly the same esteem as the bible because it was her 'divine discovery' that she made through the 'lord'. Now most people look at that as a bunch of hooey and to each his own I say. But then, are the reasons for why the bible was written much different? That is why I only take any religious book at face value.
As for the law thing. Yes, some of the laws we have today are influenced by our religion, but not all. And this goes back to the time when religion is what ruled the land. Now I think we can all agree through what has happened in the middle east to the way things were in Europe centuries ago, that theocracy is not a good thing. So many of these religious influenced laws have simply become part of Western Civilization and are more a cultural thing than they are a religious idea. The world has evolved in a way that we have realized that combining religion with government is a terrible idea. And to promote it is a giant step backwards.
In my humble opinion that is [img]smile.gif[/img]
I totally disagree with everything you just said. First of all,, the Koran was not written by people filled with the Holy Spirit. Mohammed and the Koran directly contradict the Bible (from just the small parts I've read of it). Thus, they could not have been filled with the Holy Spirit.
You just have to have Faith in the Bible.
I don't think there is anything wrong with theocracy if it is done correctly. You can't persecute or kill anyone because they don't believe in your religion, for example.
Also: separating church and state does not mean ignoring religion all together. I mean, everyone is always trying to take religion out of EVERYTHING. That's one of the problems with this world, one of the many problems.
And that's just my opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]
Hehehe. And this is where I think religous arguements, especially when each side is at the way far end, never accomplish much. Religion is based totally around the concept of faith. Anything that can possibly counter it doesnt matter because one has to have faith. And science and logic dont recognize anything that cannot be explained or just assume they havent discovered the cause of it yet. You can use any bit of science to disprove nearly any religious idea but those that follow will simply profess their faith. Its a no-win discussion and makes me head feel like its going to implode [img]eek.gif[/img] LOL
Still, despite the fact that I too disagree with everything you said, Im glad we have kept it fairly civil. Although I would appreciate if someone out there who agrees with me would pipe in, I know Im not the only one out there with such opinions. Its lonely on this end [img]redface.gif[/img]
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